Monday, March 30, 2009

The Move - Right, Wrong or What?

This post was posted on MSE at 09.06 GMT, 30/3/2009.

A day that may live in infamy or more probably not. Significantly, it was a Generalissimo's birthday so a very significant day for him. Apparently a significant day for his sister too who convinced herself that it was also her birthday.

Someone who also had a birthday recently asked if it was possible to set up a place to discuss this (no idea why) so here it is. LIR - call it a birthday present.......

To reply, use the comment thing at the bottom. If you don't wanna, don't do it. Don't whinge to me about how terrible it all is and it should be closed.

Have fun kids!

99 comments:

  1. I think I love you gen. In a sort of platonic never met you in real life way.

    Only problem with this is we can only comment on what you talk about.

    Would you go into a team of us and set up/moderate an actual db? That would make three of us so far. We could do with some middle ground to bullish mods too (dos that mean Nu Labour)for balance

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  2. I don't have the skills to go beyond this. This is a doddle, you tell Google you want a blog and they give you a template. You type and you're off. I think you can share moderation rights (not sure as I've not tried to do that - it would be sensible to be able to do that though).

    Maybe there's a similar template for discussion forums (fora???). We should find one!

    I'd be interested to do this but the skill thing is a toughie - to use website building tools you need artistic skills and I certainly don't have them.

    Ps 'Platonic' is a tough word. It probably doesn't mean what you think it means as AFAIK we've never had any sexual contact. AIUI, Plato meant it as a relationship which could transcend sex - like an old person marriage perhaps. Don't ask about the idea sexual relationship. It beggars belief in the modern world.....

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  3. PS I love you too. Not Platonically it turns out!!!!!!

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  4. oops, oh well....sorry to Mrs Gen, no sexual contact that I recall either!

    Sue might be able to help with setting up of the db...she has experience I think :)

    I still think for balance we'd need less...pessimistic''team members'

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  5. There are several forum templates, I currently own two sites which are run on a discussion forum basis.

    Thanks for this Gen, don't quite feel like being fed to the wolves now!

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  6. Phew, got the hang of it in the end!

    It's Sue by the way in case you was wondering.

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  7. Well I guess you can try to moderate purely on the basis of what is 'horrid' or 'rude' or something.

    I'd hope that we'd be sensible enough to be able to differentiate between abuse and disagreement.

    Hi Singleton (PN?) The great thing about the Google templates is you don't have to pay anything up front and the work is all done for you apart from the posting bit. Do forum templates run like this or do you need some skill?

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  8. Ah, sorry Sue, not PN then. I know PN runs some websites so I put 2 & 2 together and got 3.92.

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  9. Ok suggestions are :

    Proboards - simple, easy and quick to set up..good server reliability (helps that I have an excellent relationship with the main bods on proboards I suppose) and can take a high number of visitors in one go. Our record on updates is over 2000 unique visitors all pressing F5 (refresh)at the same time.

    Most importantly, it is free.

    PHP Free is another - slightly more involved setting up but I managed it in 30 minutes one handed while having a phone convo, so if I can, anyone can! Moderating on there is more involved, as is giving moderators permissions but it isn't impossible.

    It is also free.

    Boardnation is another - I admit to not really liking it, admin controls are illogical to say the least, modifying a post can leave a white space and editing of some posts are almost impossible unless you are admin and not mod.

    There you go, some suggestions.

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  10. Richard - I wouldn't say they need skill as such.

    When I first set up on updates, I didn't have a scoobie what I was doing and just went through things on a hunch...the real skill is in the running of the sites and how the users respond to your moderating levels, general feel etc.

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  11. Oh yes pastures! I've pmed her the link to this.

    I'd like no pictures of sexual organs either, please.

    rudeness yes. Hard to draw the line where horrid is. I found the anarchists thread very unpleasant TBH. Some seems to think it a barrel of laughs.

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  12. Right so we have suggestions.

    Where next?

    Bearing in mind it's closing in on 1am where I am.

    I'm happy to experiment with those in the am (my time) if you like.

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  14. Richard, sleep. This might get some more traficc this pm (old country time.) Lets move forward with this your tomorrow and see what happens up until then.

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  15. Oooo err not sure.

    I still have nightmares from when I took over the updates and improved on it. The stress of that didn't exactly help with my mental state at the time...not that I took over on purpose, our normal site had been hacked and we were desperate for somewhere to put our info and I took the bull by the horns and started a site.

    It became so popular that people didn't want to move back!

    I think one way forward is to see who is in support of this sort of move, who the team members would be, who would be ultimately responsible (for when people complain)for the content, what our forum rules would be, what the moderator guidelines would be, if we would like a moderator discussion area away from the normal members...etc etc etc.

    It would also need to be said that running a forum is a longterm commitment with little thanks, no reward and very stressful at times....we would need people in for the longhaul.

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  16. Perfect.

    See you in my morning.

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  17. PS That's in response to Lulu. I need to turn in......

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  18. Sue:

    forgive me. are you saying we need a commitment to it and each other? Something in writing, a contract? Or registering as a ltd business? How is the safest way for us as individuals to commit to this? Richard might know,or I can ask my poor patient husband who is waiting for me.

    I think with the right team of us...that doesn't mean a sychophantic agreeing group, that need not be a problem.

    I'd be uncomfortable entering that arrangement with some MSE contributers: should they be who they appear to be on furher revelation. This could get uncomfortable if people who anyone of the so far theoretical group don't feel 'comfortable with' wants to enter the fray.

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  19. Richard, turn the pc off and go and get into your bed.

    I'm going too. GO, SLEEP.

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  20. Cleaver? seems sensible, owns a BTL, so t'other side of any bias?

    Bubblesmoney? Long posts, strong opinions, quietly expresses with tact.

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  21. Oh no, nothing as heavy as contract etc. Just a personal commitment, the last thing a stable forum needs is someone who is there one day and gone the next.

    Limited companies etc are not needed either.

    Right time for school run and shopping.

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  22. Who are you people? You all have other names and yet know who you all are. I feel like I missed something at some point :(

    Only followed the link to be nosey, anyhow.

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  23. I am in disguise until I can figure out who is who. I think you are LIR, Lulu.

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  24. Lol, took the words right out of my mouth!

    I had more thoughts, would we/you want more than one board? A general welcome board? An anything goes discussion board (for the birthdays etc).

    What topics would we want to discuss? Just house prices, recession and economy or a wider slant?

    Questions questions

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  25. I did have another thought, MSE is going to be down for a few days anyway so another site would be handy for people to post in, in just that scenario.

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  26. Yes, I'm lostinrates Lady byron. :)

    Sue, I think there should be one main discussion board. I don't think its a popular opinion but I see all the things we talk aout as being intertwined. To artificially divide them is, IMO, one of the main problems with the way MSE deals with 'our' board.

    Welcomes could be separate without a grumble from me though. And a links page would be useful.

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  27. Sounds good to me.

    Still think an anything goes board for the 'lighter' stuff may be an idea otherwise the more important stuff could be lost amongst a myriad of Big Brother etc threads.

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  28. What about Treliac, Viva or Lynzpower? Again, calm reasoned people.

    Oh Crikey, I suppose it hadn't occured to me we might need a DT equivalent, lol. Yep. I suppose thats fair.

    I think men might rather have subdivded topics though, I'm just saying what I would like. But we all know my mind is the messiest imaginaable.

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  29. Lol...and my mind is more neat in pretty boxes like!

    Unlike everything else I touch!

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  30. Well, I'd not fuss over it. Majority rules and all that. I think more in mindmaps than lists...(I organise in lists and think in splats might be more accurate).

    I'm rally very sad. I've felt dissillusioned in MSE for a while. I can't find a good fit elsewhere, and I feel very, very fond of some of our 'fellow contributers' but if I read the words sock puppet again I might have to stick pins in my eyes, I hate the really aggressive, personal people and I think an actually moderated board, where peole felt more welcome, and lateral thinking was encouraged not shuffled of to another, unknown area where one has to negotiate the sensibilties of loads more similarly aggresive people.

    DH has posted on MSE once I think- in savings and investments. Everyone started caps writing that he was a troll, how dare he join with a link to a story, he was obviously a plant etc etc. Grr.

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  31. Just wondering what we'd call a board? ny ideas?

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  32. Just saying I wasn't suggesting ''ny ideas'' which was meant to read Any ideas, as a name, rofl.

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  34. Lol....erm nope!

    Moneysaver renegades perhaps?
    The outcasts from the housing boards?

    I'll get my coat shall I?

    Hehe

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  35. Hello, I woke up.

    We could start with a single board and move on from there if the need arises.

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  36. Morning Richard

    The only fear there is that the forum may look a little bare on the outside, of course once the section is clicked, then it opens out into a thriving community.

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  37. True. What do you do? Have several quieter boards or one busier one.

    I guess it could be set up with one main board where you expect pretty much all the traffic and then lots of sub boards that don't really get used.

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  38. TBH, anything would be better than the show in there tonight.

    Morning Richard. :) Goodnight sue :)

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  39. Goodnight. I'll try to spend some time this afternoon (or 'tonight' as you pommies call it) looking at forum templates.

    It's a shame Google don't do one because this blogging template is brilliant and a doddle to use.

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  40. Well a starter would be the main thrust of our normal discussion, obviously this would be the busier one.
    Then a couple more boards for welcome/links/problems(one board)and a general silly discussion area so that the serious stuff isn't swamped.

    It really depends on how things would develop to how many boards you have....more and more subjects being covered, would mean more boards needing to be set up as you go along.

    Pretty much as MSE has developed over time.

    I'll be heading off to bed soon, just waiting for the blooming washing machine to finish it's cycle so I can get the stuff in the tumble dryer...middle son spilt stuff down his P.E top and it is needed tomorrow morning!

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  41. What about this?

    http://groups.google.com.au/group/economics-and-house-prices?hl=en

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  42. Not bad.....

    Not sure how it works as more and more people post as I am not familiar with it at all.

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  43. Anyway....night night time for me, washing machine has finally finished.

    Been a very long day after a very long night last night.

    Night Richard

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  44. Goodnight Sue. Sleep well.

    You'll probably see a bunch of posts on here from me. I don't expect you to sit up all night reading them it's just that I like to ge stuff down as I think of it as otherwise I forget it.

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  45. FWIW, 122 people have looked at the group so far.

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  46. Morning Rchard.

    I tried a test reply and I can't see it nor make sense of it :( Its a pretty format though. :)

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  47. The reason you couldn't see your post is because you were a new member and I have set up the moderation for all new members to be moderated. I have set you up as a regular user so you can now post etc.

    The moderation looks like a breeze - you can suspend or ban people entirely. It's very easy to use - slightly more involved than these blogs but you'd expect that as you're asking it to do more.

    There have been a lot of viewings of it too - you can see how many people viewed it in the last 2 hours and it hit 122 at one point.

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  48. This shows your replies now:

    http://groups.google.co.uk/group/economics-and-house-prices/browse_thread/thread/a976827bd3542ea7

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  49. oooh. so I can!

    Thank you! Its pretty AND functional!

    So, why aren't any of the 122 saying anything, here?

    PEOPLE IF YOU ARE READING CAN YOU GIVE SOME OPINIONS? Are we doing something you would like?

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  50. Sue, DH and I had a chat about how much time Icould commit. He would prefer I did not commit to weekends, but says my weeks are my business. I think thats fair. He was very patient yesterday as I started to mutter obcenities at the latest MSE crisis, and he had taken the day off (most of whch we enjoyed together) and I really do want to be free(ish) at weekends. But I hereby say I am willing to commit if we can get this off the ground. :)

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  51. The 122 people were looking at the HP E&R board, not the blog. If you google groups for things like house prices or the economy, we'll get flagged up. It would be useful to have that built in publicity for the board - I guess you need a critical mass with these things.

    I'm prepared to commit too. It's not so important that the board is moderated 100% of the time I guess until it gets busy (if it gets busy).

    If that happens we can nominate extra moderators.

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  52. Oh, and I've changed you to owner too.

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  53. Agrh, it shares email addresses, not sure I like that at all!

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  54. Oh and I sent you an email by mistake. It was meant to be a reply on the board.

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  55. I don't like that either. I hope it's only owners that can email. If not then forget it.

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  56. LOL< thats ok, I think you had my email address anyway. Its that it sends one of those digest things that reveals email address of the poster next to their name. That's more disconcerting IMO, because I think all members get that?

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  57. I think I just changed your settings so it's all via the group.

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  58. Ooh, ok. :) sorry about pnaic then! Was that the way I signed up? Would need to be made VERY clear to joiners I think :)

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  59. I agree. It is still possible to see your email address though. I signed in as my wife to see what posters see.

    There must be a way round this. I can't believe that Google make you share your email with the world.

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  60. I've just gone and had a nosey and can see your email addys, too.

    I can't imagine how messy the whole thing could get if someone had an issue with you / something you posted and they had access to your email addy. The PM facility on MSE is bad enough sometimes, but at least you can opt out of receiving them should you wish to.

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  61. Do you see my email address by my posts or just your own?

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  62. Hell. I'll email Google and find out how to resolve this. Perhaps I should delete the Group too or is that too hasty? Any thoughts?

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  63. Incredible. They have to show your email address. They use 'masking' so email addy collecting 'bots can't pick it up but obviously other users can.

    The Google advice is that if you don't like it, set up a second email address.

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  64. On the Google groups page I cannot see your email on your posts, but I can click through to your profile and see a shortened version of your email address. If I click on that Google ask me for an image conformation to 'unlock the email address', then I can see your full email.

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  65. I'll delete it. I'll look at the alternatives Sue suggested.

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  66. That's a good one to watch out for in future. The last thing I want is to end up having to change my email because some idiot is harassing me.

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  67. I'm oldMcDonald, BTW. I suppose I should say who I am, so you don't end up thinking you may end up with a stalker!

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  68. Oh, hello you! You were on my shortlist of who Lady Byron could be.

    Thank you for helping with that.

    Whatdo you think of the idea of somewhere else to debate this stuff? MSE does what it does unsurpassably, but this sort of thing is difficult under the MSE set up.

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  69. OK, well, it doesn't seem to be just us who would go for this. I've had a couple of positive pms for a new forum. The problem in my mind, still is traffic. To be anything other than what MSE has become we need traffic and new blood with this better moderation. :)

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  70. darn not being able to edit on this list...I didn't mean to imply MSE is rubbish, just ''our'' bit of it, lol

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  71. Blimey, you have all been busy talking while I have been doing the school run!

    Yes, showing emails is a little bit eek. On most forums (I know proboards is one) you can decide to hide your email from other posters...or you can be completely open and opt to show it to those who click on your profile.

    I think it is similar in Boardnation...will have to check php free, that is our back up board for our main one and we rarely use it so i tend to forget what is normal and what isn't over there.

    With regards being on the 'team', I'm not sure if I would be the right person. As (very correctly) pointed out yesterday, I can have a tendancy to become sensitive on certain issues which could colour the way I would moderate.

    I'm not saying it would for sure as I know on the forums I run, that I am very very neutral and put personal feelings aside for the good of the site but with such an emotive subject as finances etc, there is a risk that I could.

    It is also in our busy time on my site and that can take up a lot of my time, coupled with study and the children (plus my other onlike responsibilities - I am also a administrator on a couple of other sites, not owned by me), I could let the side down due to availability issues.

    For an idea of what a proboards site looks like, here is my current one www.speedwayupdates.co.uk to get one like it, here is the link to proboards for signing up http://www.proboards.com/

    Will come back with boardnation and php free shortly.

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  72. Right, php free based forum example - http://www.phpbber.com/phpbb/index.php?mforum=crazysuesupdate to create your own http://www.phpbber.com/

    Boardnation example - http://users.boardnation.com/~witchesfans/index.php get your own http://boardnation.com/

    Don't much like boardnation admin panel though....

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  73. I like the php free one personally. I've posted to a few boards that look like that.

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  74. Yeah...it does look cleaner. The sorting out of permissions for moderators can be a bit of a pain but it is workable once you get the hang of it.

    I tend to do things on a wing and a prayer...what does this button do?

    It works for me!

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  75. Ha ha. That sounds like my user skills.

    The term 'PICNIC' was made for me (Problem In Chair Not In Computer)!

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  76. I find it laughable when people call me a webmaster...more like bloomingluckyitworkedmaster.

    Even funnier is when people get this huge thing about talking to me, they contact me and are in such awe just because I run a few sites...what is that about? It typically goes " Are you THE CS?" "Yes I am CS" "Woah....wow, amazing, I am actually talking to THE CS" "Er, I am just a normal housewife you know"

    I just don't get it.

    To my mind, running a site is not so much to do with computer skills but more to do with people and organisational skills, so I run mine using the old quality training I received many years ago for the BS5750...internal and external customers, working as a team gumpf.

    I have been accused of being a little anal when it comes to standards, be it text speak or spelling on the forums or how the team members deal with the users but I really do believe that standards of service are of the ultimate importance...an unhappy user makes for an unhappy site.

    Begger, now you have got me into corporative speak!

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  77. DH and I were reading some gumf issued by his employers on friday evening at got the giggles.

    Corporatisationalism. What the dickens? The thing is the (american) corporate speak of adding an extra suffix to make it seem to make sense when it only does in one's own head is very, very addictive :)

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  78. My boss once told me in a meeting, "We're not here to solutionize". She was an idiot though.

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  79. I get the giggles watching the Apprentice...the amount of corporate (or bum lick) speak that goes on on there is amazing.

    My son sits there all agog at the big words, I sit there saying "in other words".

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  80. All of which has me arrivitisating at the point that I would feel stongly that I would want Off topicaliastionisticanism to be to heavily dis-incentivised with a forum.

    Not only is it where connections ar emade it often brings us to a relavan point in debate.

    Just as we rather cleverly got to here :)

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  81. Hehe....I had to read that twice!

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  82. G'night kids. I'll have another go at putting a forum together tomorrow.

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  83. This comment has been removed by the author.

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  84. This comment has been removed by the author.

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  85. I'm gathering the idea has lost appeal?

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  86. Or we have just been too busy.....struggled to get online yesterday as it was rush rush rush.

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  87. Momentum is fading.

    Judging by this we don't have the time between three of us to moderate properly. Either we need more people or give up on the idea.

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  88. I do think we'd need more people if we go forward. I also think we'd need a more balanced moderation team in anycase: help keep moderation balanced.

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  89. http://cashtrated.com/forum/viewforum.php?f=2

    Damn that pastures ;)

    At least I got to exchange cyber love with Gen.

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  90. Two good things achieved by procrastination - cyber love exchanged and we got a new forum!

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